Episode 10 Transcript
Hi, I'm Paula Mohamed, and welcome to In My Kitchen with Paula. This podcast is a gathering place for culinary adventures who love to travel. Every week, we'll come together with chefs, cookbook authors, talented home cooks, and everyone in between to talk about their story and their unique dish. Using food as the vehicle, we'll take a ride into the ins and outs of their culture and country. Come on, let's get this party started. In this episode, I get to chat with Chef Mireille from New York city. Mireille is a food and travel blogger with a diverse family background that spans the globe from India to Haiti. Mireille shares her unique perspective on international cuisine. As she encourages listeners to traverse the cross-cultural landscape with her traditional recipes. She gives a deeper insight into the diversity of Caribbean cuisine and culture, focusing on the uniqueness of each region based on historical colonization. Mireille also elaborates in this conversation on the deeply rooted tradition of soup Soup Jou Mou a Haitian new year's day, pumpkin soup and its significance. Throughout the conversation. Mireille emphasizes the beauty of culinary diversity and the power of food to break down biases and foster understanding among different cultures. I know some of my listeners are going on Caribbean cruises. You need to listen to this episode. Let's get right to it.
Paula:Hey, Mireille. It's so great to have you on the show. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and can't wait for our conversation. To get things going, I'm going to give a brief bio, about you to my listeners. Chef Mireille is a New York City based digital food and travel creator, a classically trained chef. However, Mireille brings a global influence to her cooking. Mireille comes from one of the most diverse families on the planet. Quote from Mireille directly. I'm going to ask more about that. And it crosses the globe from India to Haiti. She uses her unique insight working in New York City restaurants, incorporating her family background and traveling the world to help you traverse the cross cultural landscape with over 1, 000 traditional recipes from around the world on her website. Recipes Without Borders. So you can bring the world to your dinner table from your own kitchen. We have so much in common. I love it. So, diving right in. You got to tell us about your family background, Mireille
MIreille:okay, so my family background, you know, it's really interesting. A lot of people when they think of the Caribbean, they mostly think of the larger isles. They think of Jamaica, Trinidad, you know, people don't realize how many Caribbean islands there actually are. And when your family comes from really small islands, which are also really diverse, or I should really say small countries, because there are Caribbean countries that are not necessarily islands. You know, your family just tends to intermarry into all of those cultures. So that's what I mean. Like my grandfather is from Suriname. Yes, Suriname is just like Diana. They are geographically in South America, but they are culturally and economically Caribbean. And so Suriname is really diverse. We have large percentages of Indian, Indonesian, Chinese, African descended people, which all. coexist very peacefully in our small little country. And my, my, um, grandfather actually had in or about 20 children. My great grandfather had 12. And when you're on this small Island, you just intermarry into all the cultures. So that's how. I have Indian cousins. I have Indonesian cousins. I have Chinese cousins. I have Jewish cousins, not to mention that on my father's side, I'm Haitian. So then I've got the whole Haitian side too. So that's where I mean, like, my family encompasses all of that.
Paula:I can't imagine what celebratory meals are like in your family, like weddings or holiday meals. It must be fun and delicious and chaotic. I would imagine a little bit.
MIreille:Um, yeah, I mean, well, it kind of just depends which side of the family I am, you know? Like one time I was in the Netherlands, like many colonized countries, um, people, I mean, people from the islands who, that were colonized, they often migrate over time for education or work to, the country that originally colonized them. So half of my family also now lives in the Netherlands, because we come from Dutch colonized countries, like my mother's from Aruba and my grandfather's from Suriname. And so one year I was there at right when they were celebrating Ramadan. Because that's the Indonesian part of my family, so they're Muslim, and so I celebrate Ramadan with them. Then I'm with my Jewish cousins and I'm celebrating Rosh Hashanah with them, you know? So it really just depends what part of the family I'm visiting. The food is totally different.
Paula:Can you tell me a little bit more what it was like growing up in such a culturally diverse household? And what I'm getting at is I'm making an assumption that this may have influenced what you're doing today and how you became a chef. Is that, would that be
MIreille:Absolutely, absolutely. It's so funny, especially when you enter the blogging world., and all these marketing gurus tell you, you have to be so niche specific and niche down. And it's something I truly could never do. Because I can't pick one country to focus on. I really can't. People think sometimes that this was just a misstep or something that was targeted in my marketing or strategic planning. And it truly wasn't, like many people. It's different nowadays, but when I started blogging a long time ago, most people just fell into it, and I was at the beginning when it was just kind of transitioning from something people did for fun to an actual viable business sense. It wasn't strategic. It's my family. That's how I grew up. I grew up one day eating Indian food, one day eating Haitian food, one day, eating Trinidadian food. Because, you know, even just growing up in New York, um, not only is it the countries that I represent, I'm also living. in one of the most diverse cities in the world. So growing up, my friend, a lot just because of the neighborhood that I live, most of my friends were South American and Central American. So I, so like those foods are as much home to me or comfort food as my own culture, because I grew up at my, going to my friend's house, eating Colombian food and Ecuadorian food and Peruvian food and Dominican food. So, All of these different, cultures, I just always had an interest in, you know, and so to limit myself to just the ones that make up my family, like, I'm sorry, maybe it's because I'm a Gemini, that would just be so boring after. I can't, you know, like, one of the things, like, as a chef and doing what I do, What's the question I detest the most and you're going to laugh? What's your favorite meal or what's your favorite dish? I hate that question because it truly just depends what mood I'm in. I may be in the mood for Haitian food. I may be in the mood for Indonesian food. I don't have one. I don't have a favorite dish to eat and I don't have a favorite dish to cook. It's really what mood and is Mireille in today?
Paula:Mireille, I'm sitting here with a big smile on my face, the listeners can't hear it, but I feel like I've met my soul sister because I haven't met anyone before, who, um, started a business based on the, diversity of their family backgrounds. I thought mine was pretty divorced, or sorry, not divorced. I am divorced, but not, but I thought my family background was quite diverse, but yours is, so interesting. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you're doing now and about your blog and website? I think it's, uh, I think it's really interesting and also a great resource for everybody.
MIreille:Sure. So, you know. Um, I started out doing my blog, International Foods. Well, I started doing it just when, like I said, when I started blogging, doing whatever the hell I felt like making. Okay, then when I started getting more strategic into marketing and planning, etc, then it went to international recipes and that's what I've done, you know, throughout the years with me blogging I've been in many groups where we do events together and things of that nature I have always found the history just as important as the food and I think It's gotten even so much Just the kind of vitriolic, sociopolitical stuff that happens when people are not exposed to different cultures, different religions, different colors, all of that. And I think, who won't? will refuse a plate of delicious food. And maybe through develop, through this recipe that I do, and when I present it on my blog, I kind of give you background information about the country and the culture and the people. And maybe they won't seem so strange to you. Maybe they won't seem so different to you. And maybe, you'll say, okay, all that the media has been feeding me about this race of people maybe isn't 100 percent true. So that's one of the main reasons I do that is to hopefully try to break down some biases that people have when they, I've been lucky, I've been exposed to so many cultures, different religions, every religion is in my family. We've got Christians, we've got Hindus, we've got Muslims, we've got Jewish people. Okay? And we all coexist and we're able to respect and we can celebrate each other's religious holidays without judgment. I only wish the world could do that. And I think the next generation is getting better. And hopefully if we start teaching these children from young, and I hope that my recipes, people cook it with their families, like I have comments. My blog of people who use it in their homeschooling groups, teach their kids about other cultures. And those are the messages that bring me so much joy. And I'm like, this is why I do what I do.
Paula:I wish more people could experience. Eating with people from other cultures, cooking dishes from other cultures, and just, um, yeah, eating together, learning together, pretty much breaking bread together, because I agree with you 100%. There's something magical that happens when you are cooking, your hands are busy, people are more comfortable talking, asking questions, not worried about asking the wrong question, those sort of things. I really want to know more about, the diversity of the Caribbean, the culture, the cuisine. this could be multiple podcasts and I know many of my listeners have traveled to the Caribbean or plan to go to the Caribbean, and I think this is just an amazing opportunity for them to learn. a little bit more than what Google's going to tell them. So, can you tell me a little bit more about this passion of yours about sharing the diversity of the Caribbean?
MIreille:Okay. So first of all, by the way, I am going to podcast on just this topic with a co host. She's from Trinidad. We are just getting started. Our tentative launch date is for the beginning of January. So again, follow me and you know, you'll get all that information. But just generally speaking the Caribbean or the Caribbean or the West Indies, they're all synonymous, is not a monolith. The Caribbean should be divided into four groups of islands. The ones that were colonized by the Dutch, the ones that were colonized by the French, the ones that were colonized by the British, and the ones that were colonized by the Spanish. You know, they each have, speak different languages, eat different foods, um, many cultural aspects are different, you know. Yes, as Caribbean people, we definitely have a unity and we will fight for each other. We've seen justice happening to each other. There is a sense of community among all Caribbean people, although we do have our infighting against certain islands, and there's lots of historical context for that. However, generally speaking, in modern times, you know, we are a community, but at the same time, we love our individuality, we love our uniqueness, and we want people to not treat us as One thing, because we're not one thing, I start speaking Papiamento or something, someone from Jamaica is going to look at me like I'm speaking Chinese, they're not going to understand a word I'm saying. I've taught after school programs. And I swear, the head of this program is based on Chicago, and I think they would just Google and look at the first recipe. And so, there was this book that we were supposed to follow. So like, every week, they pick a different country, we teach the kids about the country, and we cook a meal from that country. And when I saw under Haiti, They had jerkfish. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? No one is in Haiti is making jerkfish. Okay. Okay. Yes. Jerk is very popular throughout the Caribbean, but that comes from Jamaica. The cuisine of Haiti is really unique where you can see the commonality between, like I said, a lot of the British colonized islands, the Spanish, the Dutch, the French, Haiti. I don't know. I think, um, And maybe it's because I'm half Haitian, maybe it's because I'm biased, but even when you compare it to other islands like Martinique, Guadeloupe, Dominica. Dominica, even though they were technically colonized from the, um, got their independence from the British, they played piggy bank between the French and the British for a long time. So they have a lot of French influence on their island as well. And Haiti just is It's unique cuisine, a unique culture, I'm not saying no one is making jerkfish in Haiti, but that is not a dish to introduce to young children as a dish that's representative of Haiti.
Paula:Before you carry on about the diversity of the Caribbean, we have a Facebook group through In My Kitchen and somebody asked me to ask you, and we're going to talk about the Joumou dish later on, so don't name that one, but they wanted me to ask you, what is the one Haitian dish they should try?
MIreille:One Haitian dish you should try. Oh my gosh. Mm. Mm, mm, mm. Okay, um, for me, are they going to Haiti or they want to make it themselves? Because some dishes are really great, but I wouldn't recommend like, a novice trying to make it themselves at home.
Paula:Not trying to make it themselves, but just the one dish they should try if they ever got the, I don't think anyone's going to be traveling there right now,
MIreille:Or going to a restaurant. Um, oh my gosh, Haitian food has become so popular, and it's at least here in the U. S. is totally trending. I'm on TikTok all the time, I'm seeing people trying Haitian food for the first time at some restaurant, and this is something that maybe a lot of people are not ordering, but for me, I love it. And it's a, it's called la, we call it Lai, and it's basically L-A-M-B-I. And it's stewed. It's stewed conch
Paula:Oh, okay.
MIreille:It's stewed with like onions and peppers and of course our scotch bonnet, pepper and thyme and parsley and just all of these aromatic. And from the time I was a child, it's always been the, you know, because it's conch, it's the most expensive item on the menu, usually. So, but every birthday, like, that was the one thing my mom would make. And my mom's not Haitian, but she learned how to cook Haitian food from my dad's sisters, where even, like, For family parties, all the Haitian people would ask for my mom's lambi because she made like the best. That to me, it's just because, um, they cook it long and slow and it's just so tender. It just melts in your mouth.
Paula:I'm going to seek that out Your grandfather was from Suriname. Is that correct?
MIreille:Yes, my maternal grandfather.
Paula:And your mother was from? Suriname as well then? Did she grow up there? No, I got
MIreille:my mother. Okay, so you see, this is how come I have such a unique perspective of having insight into every part of the Caribbean. So my mother was born in Aruba, but and she lived in Aruba until she was around nine years old. Then she lived in Barbados until she was about 16. And then she lived in Curaçao. And since she was about 20, and then she, um, came to the United States.
Paula:Okay. Interesting. Okay. So going back to the diversity of the different regions, the four regions in the Caribbean, when people do a Caribbean cruise or they say, I'm going to the Caribbean. Do you want to say to them, be more specific? Like, where are you going? Like, it must, it must get, it
MIreille:Okay,
Paula:get frustrating for you.
MIreille:much as I'm all for promoting the diversity of the Caribbean, my life would be very exhausting if I tried to, like, like, hone in on that, on every aspect of interactions I have with people. So no, if they came from a cruise, I just say, oh, what island did you visit? You know?
Paula:For people who are planning to go traveling there, I think this is a great chance to get some insight from you. What kind of trip would you suggest we do to really experience the different culture and cuisines of the regions?
MIreille:tHat's so hard. And the reason it's hard is because there is so much diversity, and it depends where you, what you're looking for. Are you looking for nightlife? Are you looking for seclusion? Are you looking for just, nature and a place where you could, kind of de stress? Are you looking for adventure? That's what's so special about the Caribbean. It has all of that. You know, it has everything and it just depends what you're looking for. But what I would say is to do a little research and just number one, not look at the islands that everybody goes to. Because there are so many beautiful islands that people overlook because they've never heard of it or they don't know what it's And then the other thing is, a lot of these, um, government reports that come out and say, Oh, don't go here. It's dangerous. Don't go here. There's a lot of bias in those things. So I would also say, don't. Use your research. I said, social media has some bad things, but it has some good things, too. And one of the good things is you can go to social media, see people who've been there recently, see what they say, see what their experiences are. You know, whether you're on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, wherever you go for your social media fix, you know, those are people who've been there real and many of them are really nice. If you pose a question directly or even DM them, they will answer you. Because a lot of people will say, don't go here because it's dangerous or whatever. And then I see people who've been there like, or even myself, I'm like, what are they talking about? You know? So I would say if you're going to go, number one, definitely do some research, but take those government warnings with a grain of salt I find there's just so much beauty in the islands that's not Jamaica and Trinidad and St. Lucia that everyone goes to.
Paula:So if I wanted to go and immerse myself and go for 10 days and feel like I was living with locals, had my, my favorite coffee shop to go to, like feeling like I was living day to day life like a local.
MIreille:It also depends where you stay. To me, in order to have that experience, you need to stay at a local cottage or a bed and breakfast, a small hotel in town, and that's where you'll be able to get those kind of, um, experiences. Like my last trip to the Caribbean, I had gone to Antigua, and I rented a guest house that was like in the mountains, you know? So, it was so great. I went to town on market day, and I picked all my vegetables, and I went soup shopping, cooked all my food, and I would, on the porch every day, I would have breakfast with a few birds that would, like, come and try to eat my breakfast with me, and them just chirping away with the beach in front of my kitchen. view and to me that was perfection. Other people might call that boring because there's no night life. There's no, you know, it's a small Caribbean island. To me that was perfection.
Paula:That's, I agree. And I can tell you're not going to play favourites and name one specific place, so I'm going to move on from that. But talking about
MIreille:Okay, I'll
Paula:No, I get it. I get
MIreille:I'll tell you one thing. One island, and maybe I'm a little biased, but I would have to say probably one of my favorite is Dominica. Yes, my grandmother's from there, but Dominica is really unique. First of all, it's called the nature island of the Caribbean for a reason. It's been largely untouched. It has. One of the, I think there's only three in the world. It has one of three boiling lakes in the world. It's a volcanic, volcanic island. There's an emerald pool, literally under the waterfall. It's this pool you can swim in where the, where the water is dark green if you love nature. Not to mention the kalinago, they have one of the la they have the largest intact indigenous population in the Caribbean that live on protected part of the island. Still live very communally. So it's just a unique island. Yes. I am partial to it'cause my grandmother's from there. But if I would say one place you should visit that you're not gonna get those experiences on other islands is Dominica
Paula:I really appreciate that. Thank you. going back to what you said about the travel advisories. So, how about Haiti?
MIreille:This is what I will say about Haiti. Haiti is, um. There's a lot of corruption there, as there are in many places, but there's also a lot of beauty and a lot of safe places to go in Haiti. Port au Prince is dangerous, I'm not going to lie, but you go to Cap Haitien, you go to a lot of the places out, once you're outside of Port au Prince, it's almost like you're in a different country. That doesn't even mean you stroll around without being aware of your surroundings and where you are. There is a woman. I can't remember her. Dr. Pertrude something. I can't remember it off the top of my head. I will get it to you and you could put it in the show notes. She is a great woman to follow on Instagram and on TikTok. I just can't remember her last name right now. And she was even on some news show the other day because she has done a lot in helping. She's Haitian, but like Basically brought up in America, so educated in America and all of that. And she's, has this not for profit where she's building schools in Haiti. And she just shows, first of all, she teaches you a lot of history in her videos. And she also just shows the beauty of Haiti, you know. And shows, you know, that it's not as dangerous as the media portrays. Port au Prince is, but once you're out of Port au Prince, out of the capital, it's a, you know, and you don't really have to set foot in Port au Prince. You take a connecting flight, Port au Prince, Cap Haitien, or wherever you want to go, and there's still so much you can see and enjoy in Haiti, and be as safe as you can be, you know, in many other places.
Paula:And that's perfect transition for you to share with us the recipe that you're sharing with my listeners, today. Tell me about that dish, the Haitian dish.
MIreille:Joumou is, is, is, I'm sorry. Like, it's almost like beyond words. It is everything. You know, and when I was a child, I just thought this was just, being half Haitian, I'm not, I would say, as ingrained maybe in the culture as many other people, only because I have these cultural influences coming from me from so many directions. So I know a little of this part of my culture. I know a little bit of this part of my culture. I know a little bit. I'm not as maybe ingrained as other people are. But Joumou is one of the things we had every single year. And when my mom made Joumou, Oh, and I would eat this thing for like a week for like breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I just loved it. As I got older. And I learned about the history and what it represents. To me, it's even more special. Joumou is basically a pumpkin soup, but it's not like any Western pumpkin soup you have ever had in your life. It, there's pumpkin, but then there's meat. Uh, it can be made with a variety of meat. You can use beef. Goat meat, whatever kind of meat you'd like really. It has pasta in it. It usually has both vermicelli and macro and like penne or macaroni or something. And then it will also have vegetables. There's carrots and there's turnip, different vegetables in it. So it is an all. Day fair to make Joumou because of the way we cook, we don't just soft taste the meat and add it. No, the meat is seasoned and a lot of times it's seasoned the night before and marinated, and then we basically boil the meat with. There's always lots of onions and peppers and Scotch bonnet and clove and thyme and parsley. Then after that it's added to the soup that's, that's been made Joumou is a symbol. It's a symbol of freedom of independence. Um, cause January 1st is Haiti's independence day. So people make Joumou every single independence day. And the story goes that, when the people were still enslaved, even though they were the ones making the soup, they were not allowed to eat it. It was thought to be too refined, um, for them to appreciate it. So when Haiti finally got their independence, then General Dessalines said, everyone go home and make Joumou. And now that's part of the history of what Haitian people make every single New Year's Day.
Paula:Tell me about that New Year's Day, uh, celebration, Independence Day. What would that look like typically for a Haitian family or your family?
MIreille:Well, like I said, my family's not typical, so,
Paula:Okay.
MIreille:but for most, but for most Haitian people, you know, yeah, you know, a lot of times it's all of the relatives coming together at someone's house to make, I mean, no one makes. Like a sauce can of Joumou. People are making like, if you see, I think it says the recipe on my website. I think it feeds like 12 people I put for the number of servings. Like we, I don't know how to make that in small servings because no one is making a little pot of Joumou for just like, For, you know, their family. Because someone's gonna drop by. Someone's gonna be coming by. So you always make enough for extra. And then when they go home, you send them home with leftovers, etc. And then you're eating that for a few days, it tastes better. Like any recipe, like all things like soups and stews, you know, the more it, it has time to develop, the better it tastes. Like day three is when soup Joumou is for me, that is, then there's nothing to do. Day one, yeah, it's good. Day two, it's gotten a little bit better, but day three, oh my God, that's the best soup Joumou.
Paula:And would you have it during the day or at night? Like, is it a big lunch meal or in the evening?
MIreille:When soup Joumou is there, I will have it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I truly don't care.
Paula:So it just sits on the stove pot and you just go and, um,
MIreille:eat Joumou, till it's finished.
Paula:I'm getting the sense from both sides of your family that hospitality plays a big role in, um, both cultures. Is that fair to say?
MIreille:Caribbean cultures in general. I think Caribbean people, we share food. We, no one ever makes enough food just for themselves. It's just part of our culture and community. We just cook big vats of food, and if there's leftovers, we send you home with leftovers. It's so funny where like American, often American parties, they think it's okay to have a party and just have like, Chips and soda and stuff like that. No, no, no, no. If you're Caribbean and you're throwing a party, people are expecting rice and peas and curry chicken and macaroni pie and fried plantain and everything. As people do not go to parties for, they expect food. They don't eat when they're leaving their house because they expect to find food there. And if you did not serve them food, everyone will be talking about you.
Paula:the ingredients in, Dominican and Haitian food, are there ones that you just can't find where you are? Would there be a couple of ingredients or spices that if you went back you'd want to try and bring home with you?
MIreille:The only thing I would suggest if you went to Haiti to bring back is Djon Djon. So, Djon DJon, it's spelled D J O N, next word, D J O N, is a regional dried mushroom that comes from a particular region of Haiti. Anyone who I've ever met and I tell them I'm half Haitian, the first thing they say is, do you know how to make the black rice? And that's what you need to make is basically you soak or you boil the dried mushroom and then you kind of like put it in the blender with whatever and it creates this black liquid and then you cook the rice. in the black liquid. And of course, aromatics are added. You know, onions, peppers, garlic, and then it's used lima beans is usually added. And shrimp, sometimes both dried shrimp as well as fresh shrimp. And it's called Jean Jean. And, um, I can get it here. It's actually because there's a lot of Haitian people here in New York, especially in Brooklyn, where I live, I can easily get it by Haitian vendors. But if you're not In a place where there's a Haitian community, definitely bring back your djon djon.
Paula:So I have to ask you, Mireille, what do you think? Typically cook for your household yourself. I'm very curious. I'm not asking you what your favorite dish is. I'm very carefully not asking that.
MIreille:Oh my gosh, it's so just depends, I mean, like, okay, right now I'll be quite honest, I've been staying with my mom because she had some surgery. So I've been helping her and I just cook. And so I've actually been cooking more here than I do. For myself, you know, the other day I made some salt fish. So salt fish is like. Dried salted cod. And so we'll cook, we'll, after it's been desalinated, we cook it with, like, onions and peppers tomato and, hot pepper and all that. I made some salt fish and we, we just had it with the ducanat. Believe it or not, even though that's something that's sweet, They mix the sweet and the salty. We combine sweet with savory a lot in our foods for us. So our, there is a bit of sweetness in our stew chicken. Our stew chicken starts off with browning. It's something called browning, which basically is you cook sugar until it gets kind of smoky and brown. And that's what we cook our chicken in. So there's a lot of sweetness. even in our savory foods. So, it just depends. I made salt fish the other day. I made some pumpkin soup the other day. It had like, some smoked meat in it, and it had some, split peas in it, and then some vegetables and stuff. We don't eat like, just broth, like puree. Like, our soups need to have things in them, okay? Needs to have potatoes, carrots, plantain, whatever.
Paula:Mireille, is there a cookbook coming in the near future, somewhere down the road? Because I
MIreille:You know, I, I have been trying to write a cookbook probably for about a decade. I'm always so busy, so many things, so somewhere along the line, it's going to go.
Paula:Before I forget, how can people learn more about what you've been sharing on the podcast today? Tell us again your website and I'll put it in the show notes and how else people can follow you.
MIreille:My website is GlobalKitchenTravels. com and you'll find a lot of the recipes that I've referenced today, plus more recipes from around the world. You can definitely follow me on social media. spice series on a room in clubhouse. So if anyone is on clubhouse, it's in the food is religion club. So all you have to look for is at Chef Mireille. I use the same, name on all of my social media.
Paula:Great, I'll put that in the show notes. I can't say enough how much I've learned and enjoyed chatting you today. I just, I mean, we've only touched the surface. I really, really hope that you set a date and get that podcast up and
MIreille:it is. We've already like recorded the first episode. It's just, as you know, when starting a podcast, there's a lot of. Stuff to do.
Paula:there is, I, all I can say is practice the practice of imperfection. Just do it. Anyway, thanks so much, Mireille. I really enjoyed having you on the show.
MIreille:Likewise, it has been so much fun and I've loved the conversation.
